Monday, November 28, 2011

CPA merger is bad for us

As a current CA student who is close to being designated in a few months, I believe the upcoming CPA merger, where the CA, CMA and CGA designations is bad for the CA profession, especially for current CA Students and newly designated CA’s.

The CA is supposed to be the golden standard of accounting designations in Canada. It is the oldest and most recognized accounting designation in Canada with over 100 years of history.

The ICAO argues that a more united profession (CPA designation) would be more efficient and effective than the status quo and would be a more relevant designation.

There is nothing wrong with the status quo. The CA designation is already an extremely valuable and highly recognized designation both domestically and internationally. Many places in the world will only hire CA’s because they understand the high quality candidate that they will receive. To change over 100 years of marketing and history is a terrible idea. In addition, CA’s can acquire the U.S. CPA through a series of exams if they choose to.

The ICAO argues that no one has to give up their current designation, and can use their current designation in conjunction with the new CPA brand.

Without proper marketing and support, the CA Brand will slowly die with the money being used to market the new CPA brand. The CA brand does so well because of the large amount of marketing support it receives especially from the big four. This marketing helps recruit the best of the best. The CA designation is still the top choice amongst the top tier University students. I am not bashing the CMA or CGA, but some of the toughest programs in University are still CA based. i.e. Waterloo’s AFM and Math/CA program. It is quite unfair for those CA students who had to do all the tough work plus insane hours of articling for this “Gold Standard” designation when they end up in the same position as CGA & CMA candidates, and with all marketing dollars being poured into this CPA.

The ICAO argues that with greater numbers, we will be able to provide enhanced support to their members and have a cohesive accounting profession with new education and professional development programs.

I highly doubt that that with any merger, the new education and professional development programs will be as hard, strict or rigorous as that with the CA program. I’m sure that there will be certain elements incorporated from each accounting program, but it appears that the goal of the new CPA is to increase in member size and be a strong international voice. CA’s will lose their competitiveness distinctness in terms of the specific rigorous training they received. The ICAO’s argument that you don’t technically lose the CA designation and can use CA.CPA for the remainder of your career is not a good one. Part of the reason the CA does so well and attracts the best of the best is that it is effectively marketed. With no marketing support and member dues used to market the new CPA, the CA designation will eventually erode away.

Who wins and who loses?

I’m not going to say that the CMA and CGA are winners of the merger (there are many CMAs and CGAs opposed to the merger as well). Rather, I feel the biggest losers are current CA students and recently designated CA’s. The reason we do not hear CA’s with 10 years - 20 years of experience complain is that they have already leveraged the value of the CA designation to launch their career successfully, opportunities that current CA students may not have.

Part of the reason that myself and many other CA students chose to take the CA program is that it is considered the gold standard, and we expected the strong marketing support from big firms to continue to market CA’s like they have in the past (when we decided to go into the program).


 Please check out the follow up post:

ICAO vote Yes or NO?  Future of CA Designation. 

521 comments:

  1. bean counter's war to see who is the most bean countery person. All accountants sucks. They are trained to think inside the box. There is no creativity in their brain...All smart people choose finance, all people with no personality no brain choose accounting.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Hahaha, oh poor little CA student...you really have eaten up all the BS the CAs have fed you.

    Honey, wait until you get out there to find a "real" job and you'll see that people don't give a crap what designation you have.

    CA as the "gold standard"....HAHAHAHA!!!!


    -a fellow CA

    ReplyDelete
  3. PS....nobody likes a cocky CA, it comes across poorly, and as very unprofessional. Learn some modesty.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I concur with the above three posters. Get over yourself, and get into the real world. It was never what the designation, and the big4 market it to be. It is misleading to young students, and feeds the exploitive business model of public accounting firms. Perhaps with the merger, some of these biased/borderline unethical marketing practices will stop, and young students will have more accurate information.

    ReplyDelete
  5. CA CMA CGA does not matter any more once you enter the industry.

    - CA for over 15 years

    ReplyDelete
  6. The only ones who dont' care about the merger are CA's who have already used the CA brand to launch their career. I can imagine the merger doesn't matter as much to a CA with 10+ years experience, but to a CA student at this point in time, I think it matters quite a bit.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I rightfully agree. As a CA student, I really feel that this merger is unfair to us.

    There is an entire facebook group against the merger with 600+ members.

    http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/158690004197791/

    A petition with over 3000 CA/Ca students has also been signed.

    ReplyDelete
  8. The CA designation means a lot more to me than a degree given that I failed UFE twice and took forever to find CA employment. Maybe if you got your CA through an easy path, it means nothing to you, and you see it as just a degree.

    To the above posters, its you CA's who are being unprofessional to the CA students that you helped recruit into the industry.

    ReplyDelete
  9. "To the above posters, its you CA's who are being unprofessional to the CA students that you helped recruit into the industry."

    How exactly are we being unfair? I'm not involved in pushing the merger, so please feel free to make a relevant point.


    Also, to the poster who mentioned a facebook group against the merger: slacktivism of Gen Y at its finest?


    Here's the point we're trying to make, young bucks -- no one in the real world cares. They care that you work hard and aren't an asshole....and currently you're kind of being assholes, and not the type of person people would consider hiring.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Oh and yes, I *am* currently hiring someone, and I'm leaning towards a CMA over a CA because he's more professional and is actually making an effort (instead of just assuming he'll get it because he's part of the CA royalty).

    ReplyDelete
  11. "I am not bashing the CMA or CGA, but some of the toughest programs in University are still CA based. i.e. Waterloo’s AFM and Math/CA program. It is quite unfair for those CA students who had to do all the tough work plus insane hours of articling for this “Gold Standard” designation when they end up in the same position as CGA & CMA candidates, and with all marketing dollars being poured into this CPA."

    Actually, you are bashing CMA and CGA students - you are implying that they don't have to do "tough work", and that their designations are inferior (i.e. not "Gold Standard" like CA). I'm not surprised that some CMAs and CGAs would not want to merge with pompous jerks like you.

    ReplyDelete
  12. I've worked with good and bad CA's, CMA's and CGA's. A designation does NOT make a good accountant - the individual does. In practicality, there's no difference in the skills and competence between the three. People who oppose the merger have tunnel vision and can't see the big picture.

    ReplyDelete
  13. I completely agree with you. Major tunnel vision and lack of understanding the big picture here. One more factor though - egos need to be sidelined, particularly from the young generation.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Wrote and passed the UFE in 1988 so I am definitely not a young buck.

    Proud to be a CA. Still remember the morning my partner called me to tell me I passed.

    I'm a partner in a small Vancouver CA firm with only 7 CA students. Happy and proud to say that all three of three students who wrote this year passed.

    One of my students showed me this site because this summer I wrote a very similiar letter to the ICABC president.

    I don't think the poster was pompous or cocky. What he wrote was well thought out.

    Based on discussions with my peers during my small to medium practioners meetings, I believe that the majority of CA partners in public practice feel the CA designation is superior to other designations.

    To all those that don't see the CA as superior I ask why you even bothered to go the CA route in the first place.

    I was around in 2004 when the CA Institute's brain trust attempted to merge with the CMAs. There was so much opposition that the ICABC board did not even try to forward it to a vote of the membership because they knew it would not pass.

    It is the same today except they are going to force the merger thru by using the regulatory process. They are going to use the government to force the merger because they know it will not pass a vote of the membership.

    To those that possess the ability to see the "big picture" ... I guess the majority of your peers did not share your vision in 2004 and do not again in 2011.

    A proud 20+ year CA with tunnel vision.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Of course the majority of CA partners in public practice will feel the CA designation is superior. But having worked along-side all three designations in industry for over three decades I can tell you that there is no difference between them. When hiring I will look at what the individual has to offer - not what designation they have.
    Regarding the big picture, I think the Institute clearly recognizes that change HAS to happen. If the accounting profession can't get its act together, change will be forced upon it. I'm not aware of any other profession (engineering, law, etc.) in Canada that is fragmented like the accounting profession, and is in constant battle with itself.
    Finally, according to the ‘Consultation Report on Unifying the Profession” most employers and business leaders, as well as government representatives, regulators and public policy leaders surveyed support the unification and feel that it would be positive for Canada. So do we leg egos get in the way of what is best for not only Canadian business and the public, but also the accounting profession?

    ReplyDelete
  16. "Of course the majority of CA partners in public practice will feel the CA designation is superior. But having worked along-side all three designations in industry for over three decades I can tell you that there is no difference between them. When hiring I will look at what the individual has to offer - not what designation they have.
    Regarding the big picture, I think the Institute clearly recognizes that change HAS to happen. If the accounting profession can't get its act together, change will be forced upon it. I'm not aware of any other profession (engineering, law, etc.) in Canada that is fragmented like the accounting profession, and is in constant battle with itself.
    Finally, according to the ‘Consultation Report on Unifying the Profession” most employers and business leaders, as well as government representatives, regulators and public policy leaders surveyed support the unification and feel that it would be positive for Canada. So do we leg egos get in the way of what is best for not only Canadian business and the public, but also the accounting profession?"

    +1, I concur. Thanks for articulating a perspective from outside the public practice lens. I view hiring decisions the same way - I look for experience and who can get the job done well. What you can offer goes well beyond your designation. The designation is simply a yardstick amidst a collective bundle of skills and experiences a candidates has to offer. End of the day, I want a good employee.

    I would echo all the reasons you articulated from the Consultation Report. There are many other reasons I would present as well to further that point, but I will do so at a future time when I have more time to go into detail. But wanted to say thanks and I agree for now.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Tunnel vision CA partner here.

    Last time I looked the public practice sector's voice should count as much as industry's.

    Based on many discussions with my peers during official meetings, professional development sessions and just over coffee, the vast majority of us do not support the unification and do not see the three accounting bodies as equals.

    All my managers have to be CA's in order to advance to the partnership.

    Obviously there is a discourse between public practice and industry.

    Based on the replies here it seems those in industry neither understand our concerns nor care about them.

    I participated in the round house discussions put on by our Institute on the proposed merger and I did not sense in our groups that there was support in favour of the merger. In our meetings there were no government reps, regulators or business representatives to hear our concerns. In addition, I hope that you guys are intelligent enough to realize that all surveys can be manipulated to achieve the desired results.

    I just participated in a survey for the BC government on the public support for the banning of pesticides and it was totally skewed towards support for a ban. Regardless of how many participants would answer against a ban, I know the results were already predetermined.

    If the unification is forced upon us the discourse in the professions will continue for many many years .... until us old CAs die away.

    ReplyDelete
  18. I agree that the public practice sector should have a voice in the ongoing merger talks, but if it disagrees with the institute’s position it should at least provide some solutions for dealing with the serious situation that the Canadian accounting profession faces.I personally don’t think that the status quo is an option. Here’s the perspective that I base my position on.

    CA’s currently account for 46% (and shrinking) of Canadian professional accountants (60% work outside of public practice), while the remaining 54% are represented by CGA (29%) and CMA (25%) members.

    The three organizations in Quebec have agreed to merge, and as a result there will now be four accounting designations in Canada – even more fragmented. A breakdown of representation by designation would be CA (35%), CPA (20%), CGA (24%) and CMA (21%).

    If the three-way merger talks fail, CGA and CMA will probably resume merger talks, and if successful, they would become the largest and fastest growing accounting body in Canada. You can chose to agree or disagree, but there is strength in numbers.

    Internationally, the American CPA’s, as well as European and Australian accounting organizations are aggressively pursuing opportunities to expand their membership abroad and thus increase their influence globally.

    http://www.accountingeducation.com/index.cfm?page=newsdetails&id=151573

    If the merger fails I wouldn’t be surprised to see the AICPA try to initiate a merger with either the CMA’s and/or CGA’s, or both, which would be a real blow to the CA’s. To quote the CICA, “For example, nothing could dilute our brand more than facing a sizable CPA competitor body in Canada, especially if the CPA becomes the global designation of choice.”

    As the American, European, and Australian organizations grow internationally, the Canadian accounting profession’s influence and it negotiating power will be diminished. So how will the Canadian accounting profession be able to effectively represent Canadian business interests if its influence on a global scale declines. I think it’s fair to say that the AICPA will do whatever it takes to defend its position and increase its influence abroad.

    I would be interested to know what solutions you would propose to deal with the situation that is quickly evolving. If you had a client that was facing increased competition from large international corporations due to globalization, would your recommendation be to maintain the status quo?

    As for your comment about managers having to be CA's in order to advance to the partnership. That’s something that is not only expected, but is acceptable considering that it’s a CA firm. However, I’m proud to work for an organization that has an ‘employment equity plan’ in place to ensure that employment policies and practices are non-discriminatory and present no barriers for members of any group.

    ReplyDelete
  19. "I agree that the public practice sector should have a voice in the ongoing merger talks, but if it disagrees with the institute’s position it should at least provide some solutions for dealing with the serious situation that the Canadian accounting profession faces.I personally don’t think that the status quo is an option. Here’s the perspective that I base my position on.

    CA’s currently account for 46% (and shrinking) of Canadian professional accountants (60% work outside of public practice), while the remaining 54% are represented by CGA (29%) and CMA (25%) members.

    The three organizations in Quebec have agreed to merge, and as a result there will now be four accounting designations in Canada – even more fragmented. A breakdown of representation by designation would be CA (35%), CPA (20%), CGA (24%) and CMA (21%).

    If the three-way merger talks fail, CGA and CMA will probably resume merger talks, and if successful, they would become the largest and fastest growing accounting body in Canada. You can chose to agree or disagree, but there is strength in numbers.

    Internationally, the American CPA’s, as well as European and Australian accounting organizations are aggressively pursuing opportunities to expand their membership abroad and thus increase their influence globally.

    http://www.accountingeducation.com/index.cfm?page=newsdetails&id=151573

    If the merger fails I wouldn’t be surprised to see the AICPA try to initiate a merger with either the CMA’s and/or CGA’s, or both, which would be a real blow to the CA’s. To quote the CICA, “For example, nothing could dilute our brand more than facing a sizable CPA competitor body in Canada, especially if the CPA becomes the global designation of choice.”

    As the American, European, and Australian organizations grow internationally, the Canadian accounting profession’s influence and it negotiating power will be diminished. So how will the Canadian accounting profession be able to effectively represent Canadian business interests if its influence on a global scale declines. I think it’s fair to say that the AICPA will do whatever it takes to defend its position and increase its influence abroad.

    I would be interested to know what solutions you would propose to deal with the situation that is quickly evolving. If you had a client that was facing increased competition from large international corporations due to globalization, would your recommendation be to maintain the status quo?

    As for your comment about managers having to be CA's in order to advance to the partnership. That’s something that is not only expected, but is acceptable considering that it’s a CA firm. However, I’m proud to work for an organization that has an ‘employment equity plan’ in place to ensure that employment policies and practices are non-discriminatory and present no barriers for members of any group."

    +1, I agree

    ReplyDelete
  20. "I agree that the public practice sector should have a voice in the ongoing merger talks, but if it disagrees with the institute’s position it should at least provide some solutions for dealing with the serious situation that the Canadian accounting profession faces.I personally don’t think that the status quo is an option. Here’s the perspective that I base my position on.

    CA’s currently account for 46% (and shrinking) of Canadian professional accountants (60% work outside of public practice), while the remaining 54% are represented by CGA (29%) and CMA (25%) members.

    The three organizations in Quebec have agreed to merge, and as a result there will now be four accounting designations in Canada – even more fragmented. A breakdown of representation by designation would be CA (35%), CPA (20%), CGA (24%) and CMA (21%).

    If the three-way merger talks fail, CGA and CMA will probably resume merger talks, and if successful, they would become the largest and fastest growing accounting body in Canada. You can chose to agree or disagree, but there is strength in numbers.

    Internationally, the American CPA’s, as well as European and Australian accounting organizations are aggressively pursuing opportunities to expand their membership abroad and thus increase their influence globally.

    http://www.accountingeducation.com/index.cfm?page=newsdetails&id=151573

    If the merger fails I wouldn’t be surprised to see the AICPA try to initiate a merger with either the CMA’s and/or CGA’s, or both, which would be a real blow to the CA’s. To quote the CICA, “For example, nothing could dilute our brand more than facing a sizable CPA competitor body in Canada, especially if the CPA becomes the global designation of choice.”

    As the American, European, and Australian organizations grow internationally, the Canadian accounting profession’s influence and it negotiating power will be diminished. So how will the Canadian accounting profession be able to effectively represent Canadian business interests if its influence on a global scale declines. I think it’s fair to say that the AICPA will do whatever it takes to defend its position and increase its influence abroad.

    I would be interested to know what solutions you would propose to deal with the situation that is quickly evolving. If you had a client that was facing increased competition from large international corporations due to globalization, would your recommendation be to maintain the status quo?

    As for your comment about managers having to be CA's in order to advance to the partnership. That’s something that is not only expected, but is acceptable considering that it’s a CA firm. However, I’m proud to work for an organization that has an ‘employment equity plan’ in place to ensure that employment policies and practices are non-discriminatory and present no barriers for members of any group."

    ReplyDelete
  21. Reality is the following :

    All the negative posts on here are from CGA's or CMA's.
    Some feel so desperate to express their opinion that say that there are a aanonymous CA.

    This comment has nothing to do with the merger.
    I just want to make a point that everyone knows deep down in their hearts that they wished they were a CA.

    One has to be man enough to say it. This is the truth.
    And please don't get me wrong. People having other designation can be very good even better than certain CA's.

    However a designation must be compared as a group. And the truth is that in average the quality of the potential of CA members is significantly higher than the average of other designation. It's just sad for very bright CGA's or CMA's that are trapped in that group.

    This is why buisiness usually prefer CA's. They don't have time to assess the candidate at a deep level during the interview. Therefore it is less risky to choose a CA.

    I know that it hurts deep down but it's something that you guys have to accept.

    ReplyDelete
  22. First, how do you define 'negative'? Just because someone supports the merger (for reasons clearly outlined) does that make them negative? If someone is against the merger, does that make them positive?

    Regarding quality of acountants, you may or may not be correct, but unless you can back up your assertions with some facts I can only assume that they are nothing more than your opinion.

    However, for some reason you didn't address the merger - isn't that the important issue? If you are against the merger (sounds like you are) then please let us know what YOU would propose that the Canadian accounting profession does? Are you saying it should do nothing and then risk becoming irrelevant on a global scale? I think that there are about 80k to 90k Canadian CAs(will be less after the Quebec merger),and about 180k professional accountants including CGAs and CMAs. However, there are close to 400k American CPAs, and they are expanding their influence abroad. If we can't even get our act together domestically, then how are we going to survive on a global scale.

    ReplyDelete
  23. CMA = certified monkey ass
    CGA = certified garbage association

    We cannot trust these idiots to head companies. Case an point Frank Dunn, FCMA, CMA CEO of Nortel. CMAs are famous for creative accounting which by the way is the slogan of their society. Look what happened. Not only did the company go under, thousands lost jobs, pensions etc.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Typical response from someone loosing an argument - resort to ad hominem attacks.

    If this response is from a CA, it shows that they really are the finest and brighest.

    Who were the auditors?

    ReplyDelete
  25. It's hard to admit it... The message touched me...I'm a proud CGA. I have worked so hard in my life and I really think I'm really good. However he is right. It hurts me but I'm man enough to say it.... It drives me crazy sometines not to be able to put CA besides my name....I wish i could because I always get teases that I'm not part of the best of the best. It's so unfair! It's not true! However at the end of the day I don't have the royal charter and it seems that it will never change! I wish the merger gets accepted so we can be all the same!

    ReplyDelete
  26. The CGA/CMA certificate is nothing compared to the prestigious CA designation.

    I would personally vote against the merger as I worked far to hard to get my CA. The CA program is more demanding than the other two.

    ReplyDelete
  27. The CA is the designation that gives you the potential to achieve the highest possible positions in a corporation. With the right experience , the CA destroys the CGA and CMA. The CA designation also destoys royaly buisiness and finance degrees like the MBA and CFA. MBA is good if you have other qualifications like engeneer and CFA is extremely weak if not combined with another designation. CFA is pretty hard to get but unfortunatelly its a big joke. Its popular in the internet but employees don't care about it. They may consider it if you are in pure investements.
    Once a experienced investing banker told me while laughing the following: how do you expect a CFA to tell you how to read financial statements when the engeneer of the financials are CA's. It's like asking a mechanic at your guarage to create the motor and the transmission. This really made me think. Why such a smart man would say that to me. Than I understood. From that day CFA is guarbage in my head. Its like comparing a mechanic to an engeneer.
    And an MBA is ridiculous if it does not come from Harvard or Oxford.
    And CGA and CMA oh my God so its a joke. Ridiculous. Not because they are not good but its because a majority of them just could not make it to CA. It's so ashame to put those letters besides your name Its like saying to the world loudly ;look at me,look at me, I did not make it , I chose the easy route, I did not want to suffer working in an audit firm .Guess what.? This internship gives you the skills that every corporation craves. All this to say that in Canada nothing commands the same respect as the CA designation. Please dont take my word for it. Ask the real people. The VPs the CEOs AND not the stupid people from the internet with no jobs that have time to write stupid articles about the prestige of a designation. Open your eyes and ask the big big big boss of the corporations and they all know that nothing in this world come close to the CA. FOR THE NAME OF GOD CA's even have positions as Vice presidents of marketing and Human Ressources in many corporations. You see how powerfull it is?

    ReplyDelete
  28. I want to add something. CFA's MBA's CGA's and CMA's are all good programs. The only reason that CA's are superior and obtain the highest positions is that even before they start the program the people doing it are naturally smarter and more hard working. The CA order has done good publicity to attract the smartest and the brightest. That's why they are more sucessfull. Same thing when talking about MBA's from Harvard. They are already the brightest even before they start. Thats why the MBA from Harvard is so prestigious .

    ReplyDelete
  29. No one is saying that the CA program isn't good, but it isn't the best choice for everyone. After high school I obtained an engineering degree (mechanical), but soon realized that my interested lied elsewhere. So I pursued an MBA degree from a very well known American university, where I majored in Finance.

    A couple of years later I decided that an accounting designation would help advance my career, so I enrolled in the CMA program (I think it was RIA back then). I took a couple of courses but dropped out because I didn't have the time (or at least that is what I thought) to devote to my studies. Later on, however, I did buckle-down and complete the CGA program. Before entering the program I was already employed in fairly senior level positions, so it would have made no sense for me to take a step back in my career to pursue a CA designation (articling, etc.). The CGA designation has posed no obstacles for me, but instead has opened the door to many highly rewarding opportunities.

    ReplyDelete
  30. "Once a experienced investing banker told me while laughing the following: how do you expect a CFA to tell you how to read financial statements when the engeneer of the financials are CA's. It's like asking a mechanic at your guarage to create the motor and the transmission."

    First, I hope that you’re not a CA – because you are making them all look bad.

    A mechanic may not know how to create a motor, but I’m sure he understands how it works and how to fix it. Also, if only a CA can read a set of financial statements then why bother even producing them. Bankers, investment analysts, private investors, etc. all rely on financial statements, and I’m sure that not all of them are CAs. I’ve worked with many non-accounting executives that were able to effectively interpret a set of financial statement, even if they didn’t understand the details underlying them.

    ReplyDelete
  31. "I would personally vote against the merger as I worked far to hard to get my CA."

    I've already asked this question a couple of times, but what then do YOU think the Canadian accounting profession should do to remain relevant in the fast changing global environment? Also, what do you think the global accounting profession (and Canada) will look like in 10 years? Trolls need not respond.

    Having three separate accounting bodies completing against one another domestically may have worked when Canada set its own standards. However, the environment has changed and the accounting profession is now in competition with the rest of the world. So those nations with the loudest voice will have the greatest influence on the setting of financial reporting standards. I’m sure that Canada will eventually move to international auditing standards as well. When the external environment changes (as in moving to IFRS) organizations (on in the case the profession) must either adapt or suffer the consequences.

    ReplyDelete
  32. I guess they can outsource the finance function just like other jobs.
    But that wont happen just look like what Frank Dunn, FCMA did.
    the CMAs gave this jerk a fellow for his creativity.

    The creativeness was noted in their material until just before their fall.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Both the CFO and Controller at Nortel were CAs. And the financial statments were signed-off by a firm of Chartered Accounants.

    ReplyDelete
  34. . My father's best friend is a lawyer and he once received a audit confirmation from a CGA and he said: what is that? I was on the floor when he told me that. The worst part is that he took the letter and put it in the trash. The lawyer really did not take that CGA seriously. It's kind of sad when i hear that because you still have to work hard to get that designation. However reality sometimes hurt.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Why do lawyers drink?

    Because they get called to the bar! (get it. :-) )

    Some CAs also specialize in tax law.

    CMAs and CGAs are just not up to par. You need not worry as it will be rejected yet again by the CAs.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Look man not everyone is as smart as you! Ok I was not accepted in the CA program but I still did CMA and i make reasonnable money. I might never be a CEO but atleast I have a good job. Not everyone is smart enough to become a CA. However I still have a family to feed. So please don't blast us so much! We are still smart people !

    ReplyDelete
  37. Some CGAs also specialize in tax law.

    http://www.commonlaw.uottawa.ca/en/vern-krishna.html

    ReplyDelete
  38. But you have to admit CMAs are the ultimate for creative accounting. Your society if I may call it the society of rejects uses creative accounting as its slogan. It's also plastered on their websites. As well for many years your creative accounting SLP used to boast about Frank Dunn FCMA who your society gave a fellowship to.

    ^*

    ReplyDelete
  39. I'm not a CMA, but I peronnally know and have worked with many CMAs and have a great deal of respect for them. Some CAs, CGAs and CMAs are good, some are not so good and some are just plain bad - even criminal. But there are also good and bad doctors, lawyers, etc.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Yes,

    To quote you "some.... are good". But "most CAs are excellent". That's why CAs are the true and trusted leaders no only in audit, but as CFOs etc. of major corporations. I would not trust a CMA with their creativity to lead the course of any company! Just watch the Nortel trials and see what happens next.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Hi,
    My name is Aldo Baker and I’m getting in touch with you regarding your website. I’m currently working with Mint.com and Quicken.intuit.com to announce their new Infographic and thought this might interest your readers, as it provides a visual way to understand “Life After College”.

    You can review the graphic at http://www.mint.com/blog/how-to/life-after-college-roadmap-012012/

    If you like the graphic, I’d appreciate if you could add it to your blog or share it through your social media accounts.

    If you would like to display the graphic on your blog or website you can easily copy and paste the code from our site.

    I’m available Monday to Friday 8am-7pm CST, and can be contacted by my direct email me@aldobaker.com

    PS. I am more than happy to help you share any future blog post you are trying to get more visibility to.

    Thanks,
    Aldo Baker
    Marketing Director

    ReplyDelete
  42. What the he***ll was that last post lol

    ReplyDelete
  43. I will agree with you on that point. Most CAs are excellent, but so are most CGAs and CMAs. It's not fair to tarnish an entire group because of the actions of one individual, just like it wouldn't be fair to say that all CAs are bad because two CAs - Nortels' former CFO Doug Beatty and former Controller Michael Gollogly - are also being charged with fraud.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Is it any secret that out of the university accounting students who wish to become accountants, 80-90% of want to become CAs?

    Is it any secret that most of the ones who don't make the cut, so to speak, do the CGA or CMA program?

    The CGA/CMA membership is growing fast because there are more people who get rejected from the CA program than people who make it.

    I'm not opposed to the merger, but CGAs/CMAs should stop pretending that they're not getting a free ride. If you look at the requirements of new CPAs, it's far closer to the current CA requirements that those of the CGA/CMA bodies.

    ReplyDelete
  45. What is the CGA requirement?

    I didnt' chose CGA because I was rejected from the CA program. I just chose a different route. And having an engineering degree combined with an MBA makes me a much stronger accountant than just having a CA designation.

    ReplyDelete
  46. No my friend. You can have cma cga mba cfa whatever you want. But you will never be a CA.

    ReplyDelete
  47. And that is the truth. So much it hurts ....

    ReplyDelete
  48. I think the truth is actually starting to hurt YOU. You've been told (brain-washed)that you're the best, but now you're having to come to the realization that you're no better than the rest. We'll see just how good your CA designation is in ten years.

    It's been fun, but I'm out of here. Good luck!

    ReplyDelete
  49. haha, this is jokes. all this arguing over accounting. sure, accounting does have its place within the professional world, but seriously, on the whole, it is nothing to be arguing this much about. you guys are splitting hairs over something that most people couldn't care less about.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Stop the hate. CA is the best. Period. You see now how people react.

    ReplyDelete
  51. We already know that. I dont even inderstand that you even consider saying that. Look at the meaning of the first letter of the designations : chartered vs certified. Look up the definition. In my opinion its a shame to even consider that debate. CA is another level.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Chartered:
    adj
    (Business / Professions) (of a professional person) having attained certain professional qualifications or standards and acquired membership of a particular professional body

    Certified: Attest or confirm in a formal statement.
    Officially recognize (someone or something) as possessing certain qualifications or meeting certain standards.


    Conclusion. CA is a professionnal. And certified people is just a confirmation they have certain knowledge but dont have sufficient recognition by the effort of their education and work to be called a professionnal. Its like comparing a assisstant of a nurse to a nurse. Both are good. But only the official nurse has prooven herself through education and she only can supervise the assisstant nurses. Same thing here. Cga and cma are good but need to be supervised by CA. With the merger we are attempting to give the professionnal designation (the letter P) to everyone. That is dangereous and can ruine the reputation of accountants at the long term. I dont want to say nothing against cma an cga but if you really want to be a true and top accountant why dont u do the CA.? Why take anothet root and them cry to get the same title. Just does not make sense to. When looked internationnaly the merger may look good. But are we really doing the right thing. Its like saying to the world that there is no difference between a nurse and an assistant nurse juste to save ourselfs internationnaly. That is just not enough of a good argument for me. The argument comes from top people in the CA AND CMA organisations. Its so weak its scarry. The argument in other words is lets do something stupid and irrationnal but this way it will benefit us internationnaly. How dumb is that

    ReplyDelete
  53. I choose the CMA because I have an MBA. It offered me the shortest route to obtain my designation. I was exempt from writing the entrance exam, and only needed to complete the SLP, and case exam. This reduced the time it would have took to obtain a CA or CGA designation, as I would have been required to take more accounting courses.

    In the end looking back I believe only the CMA offers the best option for those in a career change, and lets face it who is going to ask you to quote section 3400, you can easily look it up.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Like i said... You chose the quickest root! Do you see what in saying. Im not saying that you did not make the correct choice. Im just saying that nobody in this world shall even consider comparing CA vs cma. Its two different designations. Thanks for writing the perfect comment. You see how the merger does not make aense

    ReplyDelete
  55. I said shortest not quickest. The CMA program recognizes the skills that one has learnt in the MBA program that can be harness within the CMA. Many companies have CMAs as the CEOs and CFOs so our program does offer superior value.

    ReplyDelete
  56. I'm sorry but please dont dare compare it to the prestige of a CA

    ReplyDelete
  57. Something shorter is quicker... Wow we can see that you are a CMA LOL

    ReplyDelete
  58. technically speaking - shorter is in reference to distance, whereas quicker is in reference to speed. so no, technically, shorter is not quicker. ready...set...go...fight

    i don't care which one of you all wins this argument though, because quite frankly i just find it entertaining that you are all arguing about accounting as if it is some big deal. i'm reading this out of amusement at you all, lol...seriously, you people need to grow up, and wake up to reality a bit.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Look at the sentence lol. You see? cma's analyse problems individualy instead of sering the big picture like CA's. This forum is really a perfect exemple

    ReplyDelete
  60. hahah, wow...someone actually took the bait and responded to continue this silly argument. keep it going, it's quite entertaining. for the record, i'm not even an accountant, but find this funny how you all are in a little bubble it seems.

    v = d/t, ready...set...go...fight! added a new variable, let's see who can use it first to bash the other.

    ReplyDelete
  61. It hurts so much when you realize the truth. Basic response from someone that has nothing to say

    ReplyDelete
  62. I read almost all the messages on this forum. It serms that nobody wants a merger.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Didn't the CAs try to merge with us twice in the past?

    ReplyDelete
  64. Do your research. No CA member wanted the merger. Thats why it did not pass. And u know its the truth. You just know. Dont lie to yourself

    ReplyDelete
  65. You had talks with us to merge twice already Last time was 2002?

    Anyways I am not lying about this. This time you came back to us and also want to include the CGAs.

    Third time is always a charm meaning the merger will go though.

    ReplyDelete
  66. The CFO and Controller were both CAs.
    Basically they were cooking the books. The reason CAs Can't Add - get it. I can give more example of CA mess ups. And the auditors failed to detect material financial misstatement.

    ReplyDelete
  67. So jaleous... So obvious...

    ReplyDelete
  68. Lol man. They all know that. Just look at the title of this page on top. I WANT TO BE A CA. Its clear

    ReplyDelete
  69. haha, you all are quite entertaining, regardless of what type of designation you have - you all think so much of yourselves. They say people in capital markets have big egos, but this really takes the cake. Whether you are a CA, CMA, CGA, my sentiment applies to all of you.

    To the above poster who commented on the name of the website - the fact that it is apparently run by a CA might change your perspective a bit, haha.

    Anyways, please carry on - ready, set, go!

    ReplyDelete
  70. We have been informed by our society that the merger will go through with the institute, and will also include the CGA association (for reasons I have no idea - as they are just clerks!)

    ReplyDelete
  71. Only some. Some have good positions because they are good. But its true many cga are assistant controllers.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Hahaha assistant . Poor them

    ReplyDelete
  73. I really enjoyed lunch with you today :) We should eat together more often and you can tell me more stories about the career haha ^_^

    ReplyDelete
  74. This guy must be a cga

    ReplyDelete
  75. I've seen great accountants/business professsionals that were CAs, CMAs, and CGAs. I've also seen really bad one and others committing fraud from all of the above designations. What it comes down to is that people are willing to pay CAs a lot more money than the other two designations for industry positions. You can argue all you want about what designation is better, but money talks.

    You can't necessarily say that a person is better a the job because they have a CA, but you can say that the CA went through a more rigorous qualification process and likely has higher quality experience if they have worked in an accounting firm with multiple clients rather than working for one or two companies.

    It's best to stay away from generalizations like saying that CGAs are all jealous or CAs are all arrogant. Again, the bottom line is that CAs are paid a lot more for a reason and they tend to have an easier time getting a job. So someone thinks that they're worth more...(not just other CAs).

    Incidentally, the institute/society that I belong to tells me that even if the merger fails this time, they'll try again in the future. We need to find better people to run the institutes.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Oh no, you poor CAs! How terrible this will be for you, you entitled cocky snobs! I feel for you!

    ReplyDelete
  77. It really doesnt matter because US CPA are taking over the world...lol Seriously, Im a US CPA and Canadian CA. It seriously doesn't matter. All accounting bodies will eventually merge into one global designation.

    ReplyDelete
  78. So funny ... No real CA would ever sat that. You should be ashamed to even compare the us cpa to the CA . Oh my god cga and cma is by far better than a dumb american cpa. Imaging how far it is to the prestigious and unique CA. I cant even beleive you even said that. Its a disgrace to the human race.

    ReplyDelete
  79. The cream rises to the top in all three designations. I am a CGA and haven't met a CA yet in Industry that caused me any concern over my ability or the education standard that lead me to certification. To believe a CA student works harder earning their desgination is only fronted by CA students. This is purely an emotional agruement.

    To believe that the smartest and best are in the CA program or have a CA designation is pure nonsense. I have worked along CAs who could not comphrehend or apply CICA standards. Its all about the individual and what he or she does with the certification. It opens doors in a profession. Once in, its about results, ingenuity, leadership and knowledge to mention a few. Continuing education and professional development is a must.

    What makes a well rounded professional accountant that adds value to a customer or organization once he or she receives certification? A broad and diverse range of experience. Its your knowledge, experience and ability that take you to the top.

    Give your head a shake and come back in 10 years and update your position.

    It is naivety and a false sense of status associated with the CA designation that drives your arguement.

    Dale

    ReplyDelete
  80. Yap Yap Yap. Look deep down in your soul and you would exchange anytime your CGA for the CA. You would do it because you know that people perceived as more prestigious. There is not one CA in this world that would exchange his CA for a CGA. But you know it so hard that many many CGAs would exchange for a CA. Think about that for a moment and after come tell me if my statement is true. Dont lie to yourself. Be a man and say the truth. As you know that my statement is true. Not for all CGAs but for MANY

    ReplyDelete
  81. Lol so funny but true. No CA in this world would ever change it to a CGA. HOwever many CGA's would. That makes me wonder...what does this mean? It's obvious for me....

    ReplyDelete
  82. All the useless banter back and forth. Some of these statements above don't even address the main issue: the merger and whether or not it is good or bad. The arguments above are just turning into an Ego War.

    @Dale - I don't even know what your argument is? Are you for or against the merger? This is basically just a rant about how you met some CA's that didn't have a high level of intelligence and how you feel that the best and the brightest always rise to the top. So technically you would be indifferent to the merger given that it is intelligence and not academic standing that should drive one's future success?

    I can only speak on external sources and not personal opinion (as everyone seems to post above, based on their personal experiences) I met with several recruiters over the past few months (Robert Half, Ajilon)and their personal opinion is that it would not be good for us to merge our designation (CA) with the other accounting bodies, based on the fact that a CA is considered a highly sought after degree. I'm not going to say that one designation is superior over another (not going to go there, as this is my opinion). The CA is the only designation that you can achieve where you need to be employed by an approved training office, the training is rigorous and I believe it is beneficial to have a Big 4 "stamp" on your resume. Go look at job postings.. Some of them say straight up "Big 4 and CA". In my opinion, I worked my butt off for this designation and do not like the idea of sharing it with fellow CMA's or CGA's. I don't know the level or rigour of training that the other two bodies were subjected to, however, I do know that it is different.

    You guys' posts should actually address the issues intended for this board rather than turning it into a full fledged ego war.

    For the record. I am a CA. I have worked with brilliant CA, CMA's and CGA's and I have worked with moronic CA's, CMA's and CGA's. By the way Dale it is spelled "argument", not "arguement".

    -Jason

    ReplyDelete
  83. Who cares about the merger . CA is the top. CAs finally found a way to destroy the competition. The old cga and cma will have to put that besides their cpa anyway for ten years. Only the newly trained cpa's will be able to use the title alone. So its ok. After 10 years Anyways the control of the Cpa brand will be under cpa's and old CA's. They will never let the cga and cma use cpa alone. CA's are smart they are saying that now but after years they will chnge their minds anyways there will be almost no cga or cma in the board of directors in a few years. Dont worry ca and cpa will rise to the top. On top there will be no unfair conpetition from lower level profesionnals. Everything will be controlled by one order and the salaries will sky rocket. This is really the smartest CA's in the world who thought of that. How to take over the profession without really anybody realizing it. That is what I call beeing smart !

    ReplyDelete
  84. What is your name? I think you are right. Never thought of that...

    ReplyDelete
  85. Go on you tube and type cpa unification . You will find videos of cga's speaking and they are so happy. They say: finally this will open doors. Look at those people they look like they are on welfare. They are like retards. My God. CA IS REALLY THE ONLY ACCOUNTING BODY THAT HAS VALUE. Its not the name , its the rigoureous training and selection of the best and the brightest that make CAs so different.

    ReplyDelete
  86. The reason CAs are pissed is because in order to attain a CA, you had to do audit; the shittiest, most tedious, most difficult work path, with the longest hours, that people only choose in order to get their CA and leave. And after all that suffering to try and get 'the best' professional designation, CMAs and CGAs who sat around yanking their cocks and diddling their twats from 9 to 5 for 1 year and may not have even wated 4 years majoring in accounting will get the same fuckin designation

    ReplyDelete
  87. Cons:

    The major con of the CA designation is the time investment and torture you must go through to get it.

    This is a quote from another post on this blog essentially breaking it down and supporting the last post above. Its the work experience that sets the CA apart and pisses off all the CAs with respect to the merger. The torture you have to endure is the difference maker, not the examination.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Such an arrogance and unprofessional blog

    ReplyDelete
  89. I have to be honest, it's beyond me to understand why CA's want to stay the same and not change. It's unbelievable. A monster exam 2-day exam of 16 hours like the UFE is a prehistoric idea. The CPA's got rid of their 2-day 16-hour exam in 2004 and coincidence, coincidence they've been growing since then! And the CPA's had a monopoly on the profession in the US. They changed because they saw their model as being inadequate. The chartered accountant model and articling belongs to the middle ages and not to 21st century Canada. The CA profession is broken from anywhere you look at it, and this is why the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Ontario is so keen on merging. Most CA's are totally blind to reality and don't realize they belong to a species that is going to become extinct with or without merger.

    Bill

    ReplyDelete
  90. I agree with you Bill. The CA profession has been in decline for the last decade and the writing is now on the wall. The program itself if outdated, antiquated and irrelevant when it comes to meeting the needs of today's business demands. This is precisely why the CA's are looking to merge, they have no other alternative short of giving their designation away. As a matter of fact, the CICA is looking into adopting the "pathways" model similar to the ICAEW whereby the CA is granted to non-CA's without writing the UFE. If in doubt, check out the CICA 2011 Annual Report discussion. Any premium the CA's once had is now gone yet the CA membership, especially the younger ones, still believe in the perception based "CA Premium". I guess the joke is really on them. I would advise any university grad at this point to go with one of the other two designations.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Go to youtube. Type cpa unification. You see cga's talking. They honnesly look like retards.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Its trueeeeee. Lol. I just went on youtube like the person said her. They are like...finally!! Im so happy!! So much opportunities !! Lololol. They think that all of a sudden we will give them the cpa and they will become CAs! So funny

    ReplyDelete
  93. One big 4 partner told me years ago that once they stopped publishing UFE results, it was an indication that the pass rates were raised in order to compete with the growth of other qualified accountants. This to me signalled the demise of the once coveted UFE exam and the CA designation. Unification is the best and most strategic option at this point. I personally don't like the idea but its better to do it from a position of strength now rather than a position of weakness later.

    ReplyDelete
  94. I agree but that's not the debate. It's that most (not all) CGA's are dumb as fu*k.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Concerned American StudentMay 26, 2012 at 9:52 PM

    I would suggest you all read the book, "If you want to be rich and happy don't go to school?" By Robert Kiyosaki and yes that is a question mark.

    It addresses the educational system that I think after reading this book is completely relevant. By the talks of it all there is division amongst you and a sense of inferiority to others by some. This book talks of the mindset that is programmed in us all at a young age, to get over on one person so that you can "succeed" when in reality the person you so called get over may have qualities in which can be used to help you, therefore helping eachother. Instead of the CA CGA CMA bickering find a solution that encourages change for the better but will build upon the qualities of the other rather than tear them down.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Indeed what you said is so true. Keeping three bodies separate will help to keep each other in check all the time and to discover the qualities in which can be used to help one body to improve itself. This is the good thing about competition. CGA and CMA have been trying to get over on CA for ages. It is the competitiveness and the qualities of the CA program that drove CGA and CMA to revamp their training programme in order to compete with the CA. CA welcome this competition.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Truth : The merger makes sense

    However in average, CGA's and CMA's are dumb as F*ck.

    See

    "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJpyiWOgQgU&feature=youtube_gdata_player"

    NOW TRY TO CONVINCE ME THAT A CA WOULD SAY THE SAME THING

    ReplyDelete
  98. It really doesn't matter. You're all accountants, you all lose.

    - Person who's yet to meet an interesting accountant who likes their occupation

    ReplyDelete
  99. “CPA” is the most confusing initials for professional associations in Canada

    Public are confused with accounting designations CA/CMA/CGA (according to CICA), and not CPA???
    Think again. “CPA” is the most confusing initials for professional associations in Canada.

    When I turned to page 40 of the latest issue (May, 2012) of The CA Magazine, I read the big topic “190 Reasons to be a CPA Member”. I thought for a moment that CA might have become CPA already as there had been so many talks about a proposed designation CPA for all accountants. Only after I read on, I realized that CPA means “Canadian Payroll Association”.

    After checking further, I’ve found CPA’s are commonly called by many other associations, such as:
    Canadian Psychological Association (which owns the domain name www.cpa.ca for their website),
    Canadian Psychiatric Association,
    Canada Palestine Association,
    Canadian Police Association,
    Calgary Police Association,
    Canadian Physiotherapy Association,
    Canadian Payments Association,
    Canadian Poolplayers Association,
    Canadian Paraplegic Association,
    Canadian Parking Association,
    Canadian Philosophical Association,
    Commercial Production Association,
    Canadian Propane Association,
    Concrete Precasters Association of Ontario,
    Cabbagetown Preservation Association,
    Commonwealth Parliamentary Association,
    Canadian Pharmacists Association,
    Canadian Peach Alliance,
    Calgary Parking Authority.

    ReplyDelete
  100. Canadian Payroll Association
    Canadian Prisoners Association
    Communist Party Association
    on and on...

    ReplyDelete
  101. "It really doesn't matter. You're all accountants, you all lose.

    - Person who's yet to meet an interesting accountant who likes their occupation"

    LOL - AGREED!

    ReplyDelete
  102. Wow, seriously....wow. What an incredibly (for the most part) pathetic discussion. Some are discussing the merits or drawbacks of the proposed merger, most are posting unsubstantiated "we're better then everyone else" comments. Holly Sh_t dudes, grow up!!! You must really hate your lives to be that pathetic...

    My $0.02

    ReplyDelete
  103. Last comment : you must be a CGA

    ReplyDelete
  104. I just the video on youtube. Lolllllll. CGAs are so dumb. Wow

    ReplyDelete
  105. I think my answer is very balanced. Tell me what you guys think...

    [First...Some of the stuck up garbage spewing from CAs is very disgusting].

    I agree it is true that the CGA and CMA designations are not as rigorous and the people are not as well trained. But this has several reasons:

    1) A university degree in accounting is not required. Instead they can go through some quick and shortcut route.

    2) I do not know how difficult the CGA and CMA exams are but it seems to be the standards are not very high, due to which more people can get qualified.

    At the same time it is not at all true that all the CAs are smart and all CGAs/CMAs are stupid. I know some quite stupid people from my year who were able to become CAs and some very smart people could not just because they could not enter a CA firm.

    The stupid guys took 3 tries to pass the UFE but I know for certain some of the smarter guys who for whatever reason could not enter the CA firm could have passed it in one shot.

    I do not think merger is the solution but neither is the status quo.

    Smart and capable people should be allowed to write the UFE and qualify as a CA as long as they train under a CA in any industry and with the CAs recommendation.

    The only reason some highly capable CGAs and CMAs are happy is because of the bull shit rules placed by the CA institute which makes it so hard to qualify to train as a CA. If training was more widely available more of the smart CGAs and CMAs would be able to write the UFE and would have the chance to qualify as a CA. Those who would be unable to qualify as a CA would go towards CGA or CMA. Then no one would have anything to complain about because everyone had equal opportunity and the process filtered everyone.

    Now because opportunity is restricted to many people those who feel they are deserving of the CA find that they have another shot at the game.

    ReplyDelete
  106. [This is same person who claimed to have written the "balanced" post]

    Something more about the equality in having access or a shot in the game.

    CA firms recruit their audit employees straight out of university. People who are immigrants, have no shot at this whatsoever.

    Also I was recruited by a CA firm right away. I believe I was an smart (average smartness in Schulich). I have no way of proving to a CA firm now that I have what it takes.

    Again maybe I don't have what it takes. But I am not being given a fair shot at the game.

    If I could get designate by writing the UFE by virtue of working under a CA at my industry workplace (where I consistently work around 55 hours a week) I would not have any complaints about these 3 designations which separates people based upon competency and different skills set.

    My issue is everyone does not have a fair shot at the game.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Thats the point. You have to work hard to deserve the CA. You can't be at home taking a few night classes and getting a CA. Its not only about intelligence. Its not only because you were born smart that you deserve to be a CA. To become a CA you must prove that you have pasted through torture and rigourous training. You have dedicated yourself. You found a way to get recruited with alot of competition You compromised and you did not just work as a clerk for your stage. This is what it takes to be a CA. PERIOD.

    I'm not saying cga or cma do not have potential. But when you look at the pool of candidates as an average they don't even come close to the CA. There is 3 classes of accountants:

    CA = gold 1st class
    CMA = good class moslty focused on management
    CGA = very low class. We don't really know why this exists. It's a quick route to bein an accountant if you are to lazy to follow the CA route.

    ReplyDelete
  108. I don't know what to say but I can tell you one fact which I don't know of it means anything :

    I know someone who did a BAA in accounting than did a MBA, than he could not find the job he wanted and become a CFA because the average salary posted in the internet is very high. However when he finished he still did not find a very good job. About 50k a year at a bank.

    After 1 year beleive it or not, he went back to school to follow CA program. Even if he had a BAA, MBA and CFA , he was still treated like everyone else. He had to do all the classes of the CA program and had to do the stage at a CA firm at about 35k a year.

    But after all of this, he paid his dues. He showed that he was serious and now he has a very serious position in a consulting firm.

    Moral of the story : CA is extremely valued and powerfull and this leads me to beleive that its the only designation thay counts.

    But i tried to understand why? Its hard to understand . I came to te conclusion that its becose of the very strict and uniform requirements to become a CA. There is no shortcuts. No easy way ouy because you are smart. No favors. Everyone has to do the same thing. Everyone has to work hard. Everyone has to have good grades. Everyone has to pass the UFE. Its the only logical explanation i can think.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Are you kidding when you say a CGA is a quick way of getting an accounting designation and lazy!! And CGA's are dumb...(and this coming from illiterate people who can't spell very well..wonder how you completed your designation?) Are you aware that you can get your CMA over a 7 weekend course..I work with CMAs who can barely key in journal entries and thankfully make half of what I make. I am a CGA, I do agree that CA should be on top and should monitor all these organizations. I was at a point in my life after University to decide what accounting designation I wanted to pursue. To become a CA, would require me to take a major pay cut and work for a CA firm for basically free for 2 years and just couldn't justify getting into anymore education debt! I decided to join the CMA, and after a year of being in that organization, I quickly realized this curriculum failed to provide the knowledge needed to be successful and moved into the CGA program. Do your homework and note that you can't get a CGA in 7 weeks but you can get a CMA...CGA's also have gained more rights than CMA because we have earned the respect and knowledge to be able to stand beside CA's,(again I do have a high respect for CAs whereas CMA just hand out designations like pamplets). We all have our opinions, regardless of good or bad, but please note it's not that easy to get a CGA as you have protrayed, but it is that easy to get a CMA..I don't know where all these merger talks started but I think its better to maintain separate designations because I really value my CGA and I don't want to be associated in anyway with CMAs, I have worked too hard to get my CGAs unlike the CMAs I know who took this 7 weekend course and got their designation that way!

    CA>>>CGA>CMA

    ReplyDelete
  110. The amount of ego stroking in this thread is unreal, as well as many of the other threads on this blog. End of the day, it's accoutning. It's not a poor paying job, but it's not a great paying one either. If you got fooled into the bullshit that is training at a CA firm, don't go around trying to defend your decision by trying to persuade others that your decision was a great one. It is what it is, and unless you have a passion for public accounting, you bought into a whole lot of misleading marketing fed to you at your undergraduate institution. If you absolutely love public accounting, more power to you, and you are in the right place. That subset of people DID make a sensible decision by going the CA route (although there are other issues at play if you have a passion for that generally speaking...kidding). If you can't enjoy your work life, even when you work hard, there is something wrong in my opinion. I can regularly work 80+ hours a week in my job, but never hate the work.

    I do work with public accountants (strictly Big4), and in my line of work, they are regularly viewed as experts at what they do, but can't really see the business issues beyond what they do, and as a result, are a necessary pain to deal with because it is just slow for them to understand things. A lot of people on this thread need to grow up and broaden their view to reality outside their myopic view of the world, shaped by the misleading marketing/recruiting by firms and institutes at their undergradate institutions. The world will look different to you in 5-10 years, when the results of your decisions become more readily assessable, and you have a different perspective on the issues relevant at your point in life.

    It's a designation, not the be all and end all of life, or the business world.

    Side note - look at the top business schools in the world, particularly in the US. The US equivalent (American CPAs) do not graduate from the top US schools. Those students pursue more meaningful and intellectually stimulating life pursuits. Get over yourselves.

    ReplyDelete
  111. Lol shu*t up man. Last post was so dumb.

    ReplyDelete
  112. I agree. That person is dumb. Accountant's are the first to have the buisiness sense. They are forced by their training. Who will have the buisiness sense than? Lawyers? MBAs? Laughing out loud at this fool. By the way, I bacame a CA and my starting salary was 35k. 3 years later I was at 80k. And now after 5 years with my bonus a bit over 100k and work average 45hour a week .Im only 28. I get paid more then a freaking pharmacist. And thats a tough job to get. Only doctors make more then me but not even because at my age they are still in school making 45k in residency and having 200k debt. Imagine what the future holds for me.

    ReplyDelete
  113. So funny. He is comparing the US CPA.That title is so easy to get. We are talking about the CA her my friend.

    ReplyDelete
  114. "I agree. That person is dumb. Accountant's are the first to have the buisiness sense. They are forced by their training. Who will have the buisiness sense than? Lawyers? MBAs? Laughing out loud at this fool. By the way, I bacame a CA and my starting salary was 35k. 3 years later I was at 80k. And now after 5 years with my bonus a bit over 100k and work average 45hour a week .Im only 28. I get paid more then a freaking pharmacist. And thats a tough job to get. Only doctors make more then me but not even because at my age they are still in school making 45k in residency and having 200k debt. Imagine what the future holds for me."

    Cool story bro.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Looks like 100k a year could buy you spelling lessons. "buisiness sense."

    "imagine what the future holds for me" future in being a douche? I think your futures already here bud.

    ReplyDelete
  116. Go to sleep please at last post.Thank you

    ReplyDelete
  117. After reading this blog and surfing the net I'm so proud of being a CA.
    The other two designations are perceived as so inferior especially the CGA. It's incredible. I never thought it was that bad.

    ReplyDelete
  118. I hope that people don't beleive that cga or cma are lazy. It's just that CA is a better training.

    ReplyDelete
  119. That was so funny "go to sleep". I think he went

    ReplyDelete
  120. "Are you aware that you can get your CMA over a 7 weekend course.."


    What?? It's a 2 year designation program, with the same entry requirements as the CA (degree + applicable courses).

    Way to dig up the "facts".

    ReplyDelete
  121. "I agree it is true that the CGA and CMA designations are not as rigorous and the people are not as well trained. But this has several reasons:

    1) A university degree in accounting is not required. Instead they can go through some quick and shortcut route. "


    Incorrect: A university degree with required for the CGA, the CA, and the CMA. There is no shorter route - each requires the same amount of post-degree time and work.


    Again - CAs need to stop being cocky douches who make ASSUMPTIONS, because it makes you look really, really, really stupid.

    ~a fellow CA who is embarrassed by your behaviour

    ReplyDelete
  122. Re: youtube video:

    1 CGA says something not "perfect" when put on the spot in front of a camera.

    Dozens of CAs say moronic, incorrect, poorly spelled things as commentary on this blog post, where they had time to plan their comment.


    Hmmm.....going by the evidence provided, looks like the CAs come out worse on this one.


    The new CAs coming out are childish, unprofessional idiots - your partners would be embarrassed to read this.

    ~a fellow CA who is embarrassed by your behaviour

    ReplyDelete
  123. Why the f*uck you write different posts and pretend you are someone else you dumb F*uck lol

    ReplyDelete
  124. Wow we will have small kids join the prestigious CA community. Atleast they have to put their legacy designatiom besides the CPA for ten years. Thank God.

    ReplyDelete
  125. lol so there...

    CA : 1 CGA : still lame as $hit

    ReplyDelete
  126. Why do you even mention the other designations. There is only one : CA
    The other ones are such a joke they don't even have to be mentionned. Never associate or compare something so inferior with a CA. It's ashame .

    ReplyDelete
  127. Its against the code of ethics to even associate in any way the CGA and CMA (especially CGA) with the CA. You can even go to prison because CGA and CMA are novice designations.

    ReplyDelete
  128. The fact that all you CA supporters actually believe the spiel that you're being spoon-fed makes me seriously question your intelligence level.

    You're not in preschool anymore, there's no "golden standard", "golden rule", whatever you want to call it. The real world doesn't care for your C's and A's, but they do care for grammar, diplomacy, and creativity, none of which you CA posters have one iota of.

    I've had the misfortune to come across many bad CA's in the business world. Without a doubt, they are ill-mannered, arrogant, single and a shame to their parents whom I'm sure brought them up to be better human beings. There are exceptions of course, I myself can name two friends who are CAs and not as obnoxious as this boy here. One of them is actually married.

    Of course it's bad for you CAs.. you might actually have to learn to play nice!

    ReplyDelete
  129. Lol. Go hide yourself in a cave. You will never be a CA you ugly fool.

    ReplyDelete
  130. FANCY WORDS FOR A GUY WITH JUST 2 CA FRIENDS ...
    too bad you aren't one.

    p.s. the real world does care about my c and a.
    offcourse they wouldn't if I had a g or m between the c and a. that would have made me grumpy.

    ReplyDelete
  131. Lol so much jaleousy. Even if you cry all day you will never be a CA. period

    ReplyDelete
  132. It`s almost like everyone forgot that it is the leaders of the CA CGA and CMA designations who want to merge! It may take some more time, but they understand the importance of merging and obviously see the benefits.

    To all the CA`s that say their designation is superior; your association and its leaders do not agree with you! The CICA initiated merger talks and would not have done so if they thought they were in fact superior (this is only logical).

    I would imagine the CAs that are against merger are doing so to protect their brand, which I admit is probably most successful in its marketing value. What they forget is that the unified CPA brand would eventually be much more highly valued than the current CA brand in Canada (CPA is already more highly valued and recognised than the CA brand internationally, this is undeniable)

    For the "tunnel vision" CA's out there, let me tell you a briefly about my own experience and evaluate for yourself.
    I am a CGA in Ontario, I did the same 51 credit hours as any CA does (I had CA students in all my classes and we all had the same cut off marks and wrote the same exams).

    Instead of writing a 3 day UFE, I wrote an entire year worth of difficult certification exams (as all CGAs are required to complete PACE levels), in addition to doing business and auditing cases which take about 6 months to complete.

    I also had to complete 36 months of accounting experience with at least 1 year at a senior level/management position.
    I understand articling for an auditing firm is difficult (as CA's are required to do), but it is not more difficult than a CGAs work experience requirements. For myself, I was doing the endless 10-12 hour work days (just like articling CAs do) except mine were spent working in functional and highly technical accounting and internal control, (as is a typical requirement for CGAs).

    As for CMAs, I've talked to my colleagues, and their experiences were equally as difficult and strenuous as mine (although I do have reservations about the accelerated CMA program [which I prefer not to elaborate on]).

    The point needs to be made that CAs CMAs and CGAs today are all doing the same type of work in all categories and fields (which means that work places really care less which designation you have and more about how good you are), so there's really no point in having 3 separate designations. Unification is essential if any accountant in Canada wants to remain relevant from a global perspective.

    And to anyone who said "you'll never be a CA, and it hurts so bad" or "you can cry all day - or something to that effect - I doubt very much that you're a designated accountant at all.

    ReplyDelete
  133. Lol what a reject. Trying to compare him self to a CA. Keep trying...Sometimes a merger can benefit all. However you will never be a CA. You think you just became equal all of a sudden because the CPA appeard? Poor you if you think that. How can I childish CGA designation can be compared to a CA? Did you loose your mind my friend?

    ReplyDelete
  134. No I haven't lost my mind, but you've clearly lost the argument. I don't need a CPA to think I'm equal to anyone.

    (and a some advice; proof read your answer before you respond you half wit)

    ReplyDelete
  135. Lol you lost your cool. Looser. Cry baby. The truth always comes out one way or the other. You will never be a CA. HAHAHAHAHA

    ReplyDelete
  136. lol, my buddies and I are just picturing you and having a good laugh, thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  137. Ok this is bizarre now lol. You and your buddies on a saturday night...lol. I hope you are kidding or you are really retarded.

    Good luck!

    ReplyDelete
  138. Haha weak...
    thanks for coming out.

    ReplyDelete
  139. So the scorecard now stands at
    CA : 3 ----- CGA : 0

    ReplyDelete
  140. To all CGA who think CPA will put them at par with the CA, I advice you to do MBA. Why? Because that'll ensure you at least come up with a compelling argument from your side.

    P.s. Well you wont be called a CA though. haha

    ReplyDelete
  141. lol with previous comment...yup they can be all they want cga cfa mba but they still wont be CA

    ReplyDelete
  142. Ask anyone who has the CA and mutliple other designations like master in finance , CFA, MBA, CBV etc etc etc and they will always put the CA first. They are proud of all desigations, but they know deep down that you have to mention the CA if you want the highest level of respect.

    ReplyDelete
  143. As a recent CMA I sincerely hope that we merge. The certification process is in shambles -- you can bascially sleep through the whole thing and become a CMA. We need the merger to gain access to the credibility that CAs enjoy.

    ReplyDelete
  144. I agree! I can't wait for the merger to be done in all CANADA. I want to get the same respect than CA's!!! It's not fair that its only in Quebec!

    ReplyDelete
  145. I really feel bad for CGA's and CMA's after reading all of the above.
    I did not know that they are simple and low level designations.

    ReplyDelete
  146. CGA and CMA are sugar coatings on the sprinkles.
    CA is the real vanilla with sprinkles.

    ReplyDelete
  147. Anonymous on July 17, 2012 10:31 PM wrote:

    I really feel bad for CGA's and CMA's after reading all of the above.
    I did not know that they are simple and low level designations.
    -----------------------------------------------
    You are right - CMA and CGA designations *are* subordinate to the CA designation, but don't feel bad for us ... we're gonna be your colleagues soon. One big happy family.

    And if Quebec is any indication, you will continue to pay more for annual dues than us, even though we will all be the same!

    ReplyDelete
  148. I can't wait in a few years that the population of professionnal accountants will mostly be CPAs and old CAs. This way we can take over and kick CGAs and CMAs out of the picture. Its highly unlikely that newly CPAs will accept to be associated with the old CGAs and CMAs due to their new rigourous program. They will probably wanting to be associated with CAs. As the population will grow, more power will be held on the board of directors of the CPA order by CAs and CPAs and they will be able to take the decision to force them to maintain their old designation for life. This will also be easy because over the years the CPA order will have suffered in reputation by the stupidities that CGAs and CMAs will have done in the business world. Not because they are bad prople but because they are not accountants. They just got baby training. And this is dangereous for the population. This is why its important to keep the legacy designations besides the CPA for life. I urge authorities to make a new law in order to protect the public. Its really dangereous for the human and business race having CGAs and CMAs pretending they are accountants.

    ReplyDelete
  149. I don't think arbitrarily kicking someone out of the profession will be an option. CMAs and CGAs certified under their own program, and the unification process is all about making them all like us.

    I think it is a bad move, for the same reasons you say above. We would be better off leaving well enough alone, and allowing the others to continue their downward spiral. It's like taking over a floundering competitor that has a horrible reputation. Why put our own reputation at stake?

    ReplyDelete
  150. All this talk, for what? The heads of the organizations clearly are looking at the bigger picture, which the young students / newly designated accountants are unable to appreciate, and understandably so. But realize, at the end of the day, you're just an accountant. Get over yourselves, and the lofty sense of entitlement you seem to have. Tell a banker or a lawyer you are a CA, and they will say good, please tick and tie this, and leave the real business to the dealmakers. It's a professional service, not something to let your egos get swollen over. Other people really don't care, lol. This thread is amusing, yet sad, to watch though.

    ReplyDelete
  151. CA so powerfull

    ReplyDelete
  152. "But realize, at the end of the day, you're just an accountant...It's a professional service, not something to let your egos get swollen over."

    Your attempt to denounce a globally respected and a highly prestigious qualification is remarkable and articulate. Nevertheless, it only proves that you are not a CA (or rather you couldn't become one).
    The fact of the matter is 'the real dealmakers' are not allowed to make deals without 'that tick' by a CA. Besides those dealmakers would only prove their ignorance in case they do not consult the 'complete business solution providers' a.k.a their CAs.
    So should you take pride in being a CA?
    The answer is a big bold YES and you can take it to the neon lights on the streets.

    P.s. We can only hope that you dont refer to pilots as drivers.

    ReplyDelete
  153. If CAs are complete business solution providers, then why do bankers, lawyers and management consultants exist? And why do they get paid quite a bit more than the accountants?

    Not saying you shouldn't be proud of yourself, but put things in perspective, lol.

    What a joke, hahah. The tick and tie is there to attest to an assertion of fact, but that's about it. You can't do a deal without a fairness opinion letter and a legal opinion letter either. And those opinion letters cost a lot more to get a deal done. Seriously, grow up and get over yourself.

    Nobody is denouncing anything, just putting things in relative perspective. It's a practical and functional job, sure, but not what you are making it out to be. And for the record, I am not getting into the CA/CMA/CGA debate - I am talking about all three, collectively (granted CMAs are not really concerned with audits, and CGAs can audit but have basically no share of the public audit market), and not any single one. My comments are as an observer of this debate, not one who has a vested interest in the outcome of the merger (apart from the fact that my significant other is a CA).

    ReplyDelete
  154. Shup up. To ashamed to admit that you are a CGA or CMA. Poor idiot

    ReplyDelete
  155. Sometimes I speak to some students and young professionnals and ask them ehat they do. They answer im an accountant. Than i ask which designation?. They always look at the floor or say it quickly to pass to the next subject. Something deep deep is bothering them to say that they are CGA instead of CA. They feel like they are getting immediatelly judged as inferior and viewed as people that just couldn't make it. Not alwaya fair..

    ReplyDelete
  156. Sometimes I speak to some students and young professionnals and ask them ehat they do. They answer im an accountant. Than i ask which designation?. They always look at the floor or say it quickly to pass to the next subject. Something deep deep is bothering them to say that they are CGA instead of CA. They feel like they are getting immediatelly judged as inferior and viewed as people that just couldn't make it. Not alwaya fair..

    ReplyDelete
  157. To Anonymous on JULY 20, 2012 7:43 AM

    Get some therapy dude. Seems that you are suffering a severe case of inadequacy since your spouse is a CA and you are not.

    And to the post formulating in your head ... no, you are NOT an actor, leader of a country, rock star, etc. Now, go and change the baby's diaper before your wife gets home.

    ReplyDelete
  158. Ask your significant other whether a CA can work as a banker, lawyer and management consultant, all at the same time.
    You tell me to grow up kid? I have seen the world and I am a CA in service for longer than you have walked this planet.

    Have a blessed day.

    ReplyDelete
  159. That CGA or CMA or whatever he is, is a retard.

    ReplyDelete
  160. Yes, and if you are right, he will be our colleague soon!

    ReplyDelete
  161. Hell no. He is a retard.

    ReplyDelete
  162. CA is the most highly prestigious and difficult designations to achieve. It is the foremost and most highly respected professional designations in Canada, and most of the time it is the final word in all of business and commerce (even when you don't realise it!).

    The CA program of professional studies not only transforms your career but also your life; reverberating throughout all aspects of your character. That said, CAs do not use words such as "retard", nor do they put down others (or their professions/designations) in such a particularly disrespectful way, as some "alleged" CAs have been doing on this blog - this is unbecoming of a Chartered Accountant.

    -FCA,

    ReplyDelete
  163. We said. But that CGA was really a retard by definition. Not to be impolite. It's the correct word to use.


    v. re·tard·ed, re·tard·ing, re·tards
    v.tr.
    To cause to move or proceed slowly; delay or impede.
    v.intr.
    To be delayed.
    n.
    1. A slowing down or hindering of progress; a delay.

    ReplyDelete
  164. He has a point...it's the correct term. No offense

    ReplyDelete
  165. This FCA posting as anonymous is def a CGA pretending to be a CA.

    ReplyDelete
  166. CGA is the worst designation in the planet. The CMA is not bad.

    ReplyDelete
  167. I must agree with that. CGA is very very bad. CMA is average. MBA is also good but with a CFA. However if you dont have the CA , you will never have my full respect!

    ReplyDelete
  168. if CGA is so bad like this idiot said , how come it is the most popular and the fastest growing in Canada right now?!!!
    I wish people would stop and think why did CA propose the merger in the first place?!! the reason is simply that CA had a long standing reputation that is mainly based on their monopoly on issuing audited statements, but since that is not the case anymore, they recongnized that in the future their advantage will gradually disappear especially with more sutdents prefer the other 2 designations, so they decided to merge with CGA and CMA, and they decided to do that as soon as possible so they still have the upper hand in the negotiation process,
    the main question here is: would CA enter the merger talks if they still have the sole rights to issue audited statements? I don't think so

    ReplyDelete
  169. for the guy who posted (CA is the most highly prestigious and difficult designations to achieve. It is the foremost and most highly respected professional designations in Canada, and most of the time it is the final word in all of business and commerce (even when you don't realise it!).

    what you said maybe right for now, but in the future with no advantage over CGA and CMA, CA is destined to extinct, you need more than just reputation, I don't understand how can someone who's job for years is to enter data into Casaware or any other audit software claims to be the best in all other aspects of accounting, if you see how weak the CA sutdents who perform most of the audits are you will know why all the hype about CA is just bullshit!!!

    ReplyDelete
  170. To Anonymous on JULY 23, 2012 8:03 AM who asked "If CGA is so bad like this idiot said , how come it is the most popular and the fastest growing in Canada right now?!!!"
    -----------------------------------------------
    It is because the designation is being given away, much like the CMA designation. In their competition and race for numbers, standards have been dropped to alarming levels, and its only a matter of time before industry is on to it.

    The CAs should not merge with designations that have abandoned their standards just to boost their memebr revenues.

    ReplyDelete
  171. Given away!!!! If that’s the case, so how come CA revised its UFE exam and lowered the bar so much that last year the passing rate was 80% ?? where is the high standard in that!!!!!??!! CMA and CGA is in the 60%
    80% means that the only way for any student not to pass is by not showing up!!
    you have not seen the CGA courses, they are as difficult as CA's if not more, with a passing mark of 65% it is the most demanding .
    I have worked with recently designated CAs and they are average at best, they do have good understanding of the latest GAAP and IFRS applications but its not enough, you would be so stupid to think that after laboring for 3 years in public accounting you can conquer all fields of accounting just because you pass an exam that is also in public accounting !!!!, old school CAs are much better but recent CA grads are weak in the fundamentals of accounting, they are used to the data entry thing but not so much in digging deeper into the numbers, when a CA ask about the concepts of accruals or gross-up of expenses you know they are definitely not superior to an accounting clerk who is a doer not a thinker. But I guess work as cheap labors for rich CA firms for 3 years to get the work experience required does ruin your motivation.
    The CA arrogance is based on a reputation created by old CAs because of the monopoly on performing audits which is OVER!!!

    ReplyDelete
  172. With all due respect, I don't think you are taking scaling into account.

    Either way, if you think the CGA and CMA programs are more rigourous than CA, that's fine -- my 'raison d'etre' is not to convince you otherwise.

    ReplyDelete
  173. So funny. Calm down your face will explode. CA is the top. You know it. Everybody knows it. Even idiots can write the CGA exam. CGA is like becoming an assistant nurse. CA is the doctor. Maybe CMA could be compared to a nurse. But CGA's have alot of work to do to even dream to be compared to a nurse.

    ReplyDelete
  174. Don't worry people. I have found what is the problem affecting the CGA's in this forum.

    It's a commun disorder. They suffer from severe hallucinations.


    hal·lu·ci·na·tion  (h-ls-nshn)
    n.
    1.
    a. Perception of visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory experiences without an external stimulus and with a compelling sense of their reality, usually resulting from a mental disorder or as a response to a drug.
    b. The objects or events so perceived.
    2. A false or mistaken idea; a delusion.
    hal·luci·nation·al, hal·luci·native adj.

    CMA

    ReplyDelete
  175. bla bla bla...CA bla bla as usual, why don't you speak to the point without acting like a stupid little kid
    and the CMA guy, why do you guys always suck up to the CAs?!! its so funny how you defend them and they look at you with complete disgust...really pathetic!!

    ReplyDelete
  176. I just hope the merger will not pass in rest of canada.
    This way CGA's and CMA's will be wiped out of Quebec for good.
    CPA and CA will rise to the top

    ReplyDelete
  177. CPA will never make it beyond Canada cause the world will always see it as less than the American CPA, too bad CA Canada lost its edge,not only that but accepted a secondary role overseas,and for the poor Quebec accountants who go for CPA, they will not find work else where in Canada, and instead of unifing the profession, we only created a fourth designation, how clever!

    ReplyDelete
  178. if CGA and CMA wipe out of Quebec that will mean CA as well because its part of the merger you dummy!!!

    ReplyDelete
  179. Good luck with your Quebec CPA.. it’s a complete joke to have designation so limited that its only recognized in one province in Canada and nowhere outside, the main reason why the unification talks started is to compete globally, how can you do that with a provincial designation!!! how can the rest of the world recognize you if the rest of you country doesn't!!! I think it was rushed into, and for a provincial affiliate to move separate from the pack, it got eaten alive by CA Quebec!

    ReplyDelete
  180. That means that we will have to always keep are legacy designations besides the CPA. In ten years , when only Quebec has merged, they will have no choice to force that decision due to all the pressure around CANADA.

    I love it

    ReplyDelete
  181. In other words the merger does not exist. We only got one designation more for free. The CPA. So its all good!!! Be happy people :).

    ReplyDelete
  182. Think of the students who will join the new CPA program, they will not have legacy designations to rely on when working outside Quebec, so their only designation will be CPA and that means less recognition EVERYWHERE
    why are you happy with getting one designation for free, you can do the MRA with international designations and get 4 or 5 new designations if this what makes you happy!!

    ReplyDelete
  183. Im happy. My salary will go up up!
    Yours down down

    ReplyDelete
  184. Only CPA will have followed the new respected program. You will always be stuck with your poor legacy designation with no more potential growth to protect you. The board of CPA is controled by CPA.
    Do you really think the students want to be associated with a CGA which still exists in rest of Canada? So funny. They will never want. They will only want to be associated to CA's. So CGA's and CMA's wiped out from Quebec. Sorry

    ReplyDelete
  185. will CA still exist in Quebec after the merger?

    ReplyDelete
  186. CA . CGA and CMA will co-exist with CPA. But no one will care about CGA's and CMA's in a few years. I hope your small and handicaped head can understand now. I know your exams are easy but come on man. I'm sure that you can assimilate a small sentence like this. A small effort please.

    ReplyDelete
  187. Reply to the measage on 12h28PM JULY 23 :

    I do not suck up to CAs. I just want to be compared with the best. I'm tired of always being associated with the CGA. Just because CMA is inferior than CA , it does not mean the I have to be compared to a dumb and easy CGA. I looked at the exam and it looks like a college exam for the name of GOD. I can't beleive people fail that exam. It's the proof that the average students in CGA program are the dumbest of the dumbest. Atleast CMA is respected. Even CA's respect the CMA designation.

    ReplyDelete
  188. fight fight fight
    JERRY JERRY JERRY

    ReplyDelete
  189. ==INTERESTING READ==
    SOURCE: CA MAGAZINE
    AUTHOR : Robert Colapinto

    Primary Certification Channel is the common route to a CMA designation. It has a university degree requirement, 17 prerequisite courses, and a two-day uniform entrance exam to determine entry into the CMA Professional Program. About 60% of these hopefuls pass and move on to the two-year CMA Strategic Leadership Program and its final uniform national exam. The newly minted CMAs apply their skills within a rigorous two-year practical experience requirement.

    Lifelong continuous learning and development is mandatory in almost half of the CMA institutes/jurisdictions and the brand is subject to stringent rules of professional conduct. Comparable to but different from CAs, the modern CMA adheres to a laudably high level of professional standards in education, certification, discipline and integrity.

    So there.

    ReplyDelete
  190. This is what Brian Hunt has to say about the merger,Brian Hunt, CEO of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Ontario and a member of the Council of Senior Executives (CSE).


    "Like any CA worth his salt, these guys are not going to sign off their good names and profession's reputation and future without access to and analysis of all the facts, figures and spreadsheets they'd expect to be available in any audit they might run into in their daily working lives,We know this because we are them. We're [a] part of the premier profession and damned if we're going to wreck it."

    Since the announcement of the proposed merger, the CICA and the provincial institutes have been actively ramping up their efforts to provide the membership with hard facts on the foundational reasoning for it. "Look, we're not fooling ourselves," says Hunt. "Although we think we have a good case for merger and we have reasoned explanations and data to support this move, we know that a number of CAs will still howl 'Nay' to it no matter what. It's human nature." Hunt's mission, as he sees it, is to take a strong business case for merger and disentangle it from the heated emotion of the moment.

    This is what I have to say:
    NAY FUK YOU KUNT...HUNT

    ReplyDelete
  191. To Anonymous on JULY 23, 2012 11:33 PM

    As an "early-forties" person who recently completed the two-year CMA certification program (SLP), it is clear to me that either Robert Colapinto knows not of what he speaks, or his motives are suspect.

    I was shocked at how weak the program is and by extension, the types of people who were being certified.

    I believe that I personally can only gain from a merger, so why am I saying this? Ethics is part of it. I wouldn't feel good gaining something, knowing that I did so at the expense of another. The other part is that I'm at a point in my career where I don't 'need' a designation. Yes - I did it, but I didn't really need to.

    Using the term "rigorous" is misleading. Colapinto should know better than to deceive, or talk of things about which he knows very little.

    Rather than engage in 'he said, she said', the CA decision-makers need to actually go through the program. My bet would be that no CA who did this would favour a merger if they looked at it objectively. If the intent is simply to merge at any cost, then you will be rubbing shoulders with some pretty weak people.

    ReplyDelete
  192. Conclsion

    CGA's: Retarded people with severe hallucinations. Most probably the worst designation the human race has ever seen. To this day we don't know why this designation exists

    CMA's : Respectfull people with common sense. They agree that their designation is inferior to a CA. However CA's respect them and I personnaly beleive its a good designation. Far above the CGA.

    ReplyDelete
  193. Re: CGA ... a colleague put it best when he said "They are just a bunch of people who couldn't pass the UFE".

    ReplyDelete
  194. - "Primary Certification Channel is the common route to a CMA designation. It has a university degree requirement, 17 prerequisite courses, and a two-day uniform entrance exam to determine entry into the CMA Professional Program." -

    Sorry this just isn't true. Most CMA students today are doing the 7 month accelerated program (which skims over audit, tax and most of advanced financial accounting). There is no 2 day exam like this guy says, it's 4 hours and it's multiple choice which focuses on soft material such as marketing and managerial theory (see link below)

    http://www.cma-alberta.com/index.cfm/ci_id/12018/la_id/1.htm

    I'm not a CGA ok, so relax, but at least that designation requires the same 51 credit hours as CAs and most CGAs do them in university and transfer credits over.

    ReplyDelete
  195. I know why the CGA designation exist.

    One day, a lazy person that could not make it to be a CA. woke up and said : i want to be an accountant but the CA program is way to hard and not flexible for busy people that have families and don't habe time to go to school because they work during the day.

    So he used his connections with the government and made a CGA designation. A flexible program which is more open to everyone.

    In other words, its like if I wake up in the morning one day and say to myself the following : I want to be a medical doctor but i'm so busy with work and I have kids at home. Let's do a new designation that will be flexible for me. A few night classes, and a few easy exams that can be exonorated if I do a night class on the side, and I will be medical doctor also :)

    Do you see how this argument does not make sense at all. If you want to be a medical doctor, juste become MD. You need to sacrifice. Its not my problem if you habe a job and kids. MD order is not going to make an easier program to accomodate you with some night classes and easier exams. If you really want to be a doctor you need to do the MD program thats it.

    And if you want to be a professionnal accountant with the highest respect,you have to be a CA.

    No problem if you decided to be a CGA or CMA. However be a man and admit that based on your personnal circumstances, you just could not become a CA. I'm not saying you are not smart, but one must admit that they are just not part of the elite group.

    Thats why the merger is essential. We must eliminate this seperation of designations, it just does not make any sense. Its dangereous for the public to deal with CGAs and CMAs. It wrong for the population and business people that dont know the difference and may get fooled and even go bankrupt. Especially if their accountant is a CGA.

    Thanks everyone, may GOD bless you

    ReplyDelete
  196. FYI The CA program is pretty flexible, you can do it part time and taking night classes *which are taught by the same professors that teach the day class, so I'm not sure how your whole "medical doctoral" rant applies at all... You're saying CAs are lazy?

    And please' spare us the "God bless you"

    ReplyDelete
  197. That post is so true.

    I know why the CGA designation exist.

    One day, a lazy person that could not make it to be a CA. woke up and said : i want to be an accountant but the CA program is way to hard and not flexible for busy people that have families and don't habe time to go to school because they work during the day.

    So he used his connections with the government and made a CGA designation. A flexible program which is more open to everyone.

    In other words, its like if I wake up in the morning one day and say to myself the following : I want to be a medical doctor but i'm so busy with work and I have kids at home. Let's do a new designation that will be flexible for me. A few night classes, and a few easy exams that can be exonorated if I do a night class on the side, and I will be medical doctor also :)

    Do you see how this argument does not make sense at all. If you want to be a medical doctor, juste become MD. You need to sacrifice. Its not my problem if you habe a job and kids. MD order is not going to make an easier program to accomodate you with some night classes and easier exams. If you really want to be a doctor you need to do the MD program thats it.

    And if you want to be a professionnal accountant with the highest respect,you have to be a CA.

    No problem if you decided to be a CGA or CMA. However be a man and admit that based on your personnal circumstances, you just could not become a CA. I'm not saying you are not smart, but one must admit that they are just not part of the elite group.

    Thats why the merger is essential. We must eliminate this seperation of designations, it just does not make any sense. Its dangereous for the public to deal with CGAs and CMAs. It wrong for the population and business people that dont know the difference and may get fooled and even go bankrupt. Especially if their accountant is a CGA.

    Thanks everyone, may GOD bless you

    ReplyDelete
  198. To the idiot who said : Re: CGA ... a colleague put it best when he said "They are just a bunch of people who couldn't pass the UFE".

    you idiot..anyone can pass teh UFE since the passing rate is 80%!!! who would fail that!!!
    CMA 2 year leadership program is a complete joke, its a 100% passing program, how can a program that everyone pass be considered demanding!!!

    ReplyDelete
  199. Why all the fighting!!
    all designations are great, CA is more of a public accounting designation, CMA is managment and decision making designation, CGA is a hands on accounting designation, so a VP of finance could be a CMA, a CFO could be a CGA and the CA will make sure the other two are working properly, the 3 designations do no contradict each other...
    I think the problem exisit when each of the 3 try to move inot the others territory, most new CAs want to move to private sector which threatens the CMAs and CGAs, and now that CGAs and CMAs can sign audited statements, they are invading the CAs territory, so the solution would be simply to either forbid them from invading each others territory which is legally impossible or to unify them to stop the conflect.
    but I have to agree with the question asked in a previous post, if CAs still have the sole rights to perform audits, would they have initiated the merger talks?!!

    ReplyDelete
  200. To the person who engages in school-yard name-calling by calling people "idiots" --- grow up.

    By engaging in such behaviour you are only demonstrating how inferior you really feel about yourself and your designation.

    ReplyDelete